Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. Are you sure you have an R4? The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. I have a laser temp reader, and it says the temps going into the condensor are up to 160F - coming out it is always around 110 or so. Warning: "continue" targeting switch is equivalent to "break".Did you mean to use "continue 2"? And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. Generally, the new amount is 75-85% of the quantity advised by the manufacturer. Nice to use new gadgets! That is a good thing. 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. Operating Pressure/Temperature Differences The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. But R22 is almost equally damaging. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. 1.5 ounces - hmmm. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. Though I have seen em run as cold as 12 deg F. If the thermo switch is malfunctioning. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. system of 0.33 TR and refrigerant used was R12. Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. and feeds it through an expansion valve. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. Jun 19, 2007. It may take a couple of tries to get things really clean.The laser is usually close on clean surfaces, but I prefer a T/C. Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Tamb oferim en VOSC el contingut daquestes sries que no es troba doblat, com les temporades deDoctor Who de la 7 en endavant,les OVA i els especials de One Piece i molt ms. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. I'll put the relay on for that. Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. Electric fans do wear out. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. What effect would it have on performance, if any? We sometimes use a relay switched from the compressor clutch to run fans. The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. #19. $21 . Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. Hope this helps. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. When the ambient air temps get above 80F the gauge readings can run a bit higher on the high side and lower on the low side when using R134a. Minor adjustments to the expansion valve and other controls may be necessary for some plans. Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." There are R134a specific valves that operate at a slightly different pressure, but not for any "old" automotive application that I'm aware of. Make sure visiually that no large gaps exist that would allow the air to bypass the condensor on the way to the radiator.B. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? Right now you know you have a bit too much, but with a CR4P compressor this is an insurance policy. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. Thanks again. I had a 1991 BMW switched to 134a by just changing the low pressure charging valve, flushing and refilling with 134 (maybe with 10% . Gnats & mosquitos will clog deep. Where would I get some basic info on it, I know nothing about it. It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. But with an R4, better too much than too little.3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12.4) The airflow across the condensor is crucial to good performance. I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. SO here's my question. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. Hmmmm. Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). I'm also thinking maybe I should go to R134 - it might work better with the right amount of oil and the correct expansion valve. The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. Helical and Serpentine coils. Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). I think the way to go here is1. If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. Whenever its exposed to the environment, it changes to a gas. Talk about what services you provide. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. absorb by the evaporator to insure all liquid refrigerant entering the evaporator. Just leave it alone for now. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. Even if the system leaks, repairing the leaks and recharging it with R-12 is usually the best repair alternative. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. A final difference is that most (though not all) R-1234yf cars will have a Suction Line Heat Exchanger. But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. Bookmarks: Digg; del . . You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. Hence, the effect of R12 on global warming is up to 10,000 times higher than carbon dioxide. How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? Its highest value is 1. A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). Make sure to get the R12 EXP valve if that is the way you go. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. Then at least I'd know really where I am on it. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. These differences in the valve size can be attributed to the correlation of the cooling capacity with the enthalpy difference and the mass flow, which in . In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the fabricator and impossible for the serviceman. Compressor. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. had writing on the side that said R134a. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. It won't be optimal, though.On some/many valves, you can adjust them, but that might make matters worse unless you really know what you're doing (which I don't!).RegardsGeorge. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. As illustrated in the chart below, the curves below run together nearly throughout the curve, only slightly breaking paths at around 250 psig/150 degrees and above Flammability/Safety R-1234yf has been designated as MILDLY flammable. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. Expansion Valve. 2) Frost on the Vents. First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. Please enter a password for your user account. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. The Main change in the system is the expansion valve. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. This is not to say that one of these small retro-fit kits cant be used, however to be used wisely. . Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? I'm putting r12 back in my system, but all of the valves I can for the application (1990 jeep grand wagoneer) say r134a on them. Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Carefully study the chart and compare the following: To a large extent, the choice is up to you. . A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either. R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch.
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