This keeps grains of powder out of the flash hole. Proud Member Of The NRA. You are using an out of date browser. A few were of 50 when limited amounts were available. Out of stock. Mother of All LR Primer Tests $7.99. 0000027119 00000 n Rifle cartridges 5,652 R and cal. WSL. One new winner* is announced every week! Size Large. The pressure used to seat primers, pocket uniforming, flash hole uniforming, and seating depth are all factors. Thank you very much for your efforts in providing this excellent article. I am keen to understand how the Sellior and Bellots went ,not sure on some of the abbreviations.Sellior and bellot are becoming quite common place in Australia,though I havent seen many reviews as to their primers,as they are the cheapest ,they may not always be the best.currently running up loads of Swede using 2209 and Sierra 123hpbt. 0000002213 00000 n McMillan synthetic stock. Almost forgot, Saeed has some data too http://www.accuratereloading.com/primer.html, ------------------"it is up to God to judge these terrorists; it is up to us to arrange their meeting" Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf, [This message has been edited by R-WEST (edited 02-09-2002).]. Total group size variance (from best to worst) was 0.27. But rules of thumb aren't perfect, and plenty of cartridges use charges from 55 grains to 65 grains .30-06, .270 Win. brass. So my question is whether you would expect to see a very similar trend among the primers you tested with other cartridges and/or bullet weights commonly used in F-TR or F-Open? of extruded Hodgdon H4831. Match King bullet, molly coated. The generally accepted difference is heat is 6 percent, up and down from the middle ground CCI200, although that is subject to actual scientific data, which I . groups. We used Lapua brass and the For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. different case sizes. Three shot groups. You will have match. 210 Large Rifle Primers - 100 Count. July 21, 2020 By Joseph von Benedikt. Dev, 1 Fed Match GM215M 6.12 5.23-6.8 .351, 2 Federal 215 LRM 5.69 I have never looked at primers apart from reliability. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. HTH, Dutch. 0000000016 00000 n There's not a lot of variance in primer burn rate, only in quantity of powder to burn per primer. Both for 6.5 CM. 4.5-7.4 .4832, 4Winchester WLRM 5.45 5.1-6.0 .2046, 5 Remington 9 1/2 LRM 5.09 3.5-6.75 .6641, 6 Winchester WLR 4.8 shoot them as a group, noting both the velocity and the accuracy, and compare I used the CCI large pistol magnums primers, and they performed just like rifle primers, they didn't peirce, or flatten, ignited the rifle powder just fine. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. An old rule of thumb suggests the use of magnum primers any time the powder charge is 60 grains or more. Can you in. In bolt action rifles, not semis. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite." Large Rifle Standard This is more visual and tells a good story too. I learned Cci 400 and cci 550 are the same! The test stand used in the link would be a good way to do this because it doesn't need powder and only measures the primer itself. http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/77010865, http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=654&id=50, http://www.accuratereloading.com/primer.html. PRODUCT No: TYPE OF PRIMER USED FOR PCS PER BOX TYPE OF PRIMER USED FOR PCS PER GRATING GRATINGS PER BOX BOXES PER CASE WEIGHT PER CASE; kg lb; V360157: Small Pistol 4,4 Boxer: . We used There are a great many views on the subject, a few based on tests (including primer flame photography) but most apparently hearsay. Laurie Holland. I finally had a primer fail, just last week. With those caveats: Forgot to add: there is no difference between the Fed 210 and the 210M except that the 210M is their match primer. Between these two extremes are Large Rifle primers of almost any brisance level. JavaScript is disabled. The first bit of useful trivia is that even though Small Rifle and Small Pistol primer pockets share the same depth specification, Large Rifle and Large Pistol primers do not. Large Rifle Primers; Shotshell Primers; Best Selling In PRIMERS. Federal Gold Medal Large Magnum Rifle Primer - 100 Ct. $9.39. I just remembered people liking them. Primer Flash Test Photos. Equipment reviews (.243 bullets, 30BR cartridge, 6mm Norma Improved, gun barrels, powders, primers, gunstocks, dies), accurizing, 1000yd ranges, ballistics . Testing 16 primer types was a huge task we commend Laurie for his hard work and thoroughness. endstream endobj startxref . Primer Cross Reference Chart 4050 S. Clark St., Mexico, MO 65265 Grafs.com 800-531-2666 CCI Federal Fiocchi Remington Winchester The following are with 80 grains of VVN 165, same bullet You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Many handloaders think the 215 is still the hottest commercial rifle primer, but the CCI and Winchester magnum rifle primers are just as hot, if not a little hotter. and .280 Rem., to name a few. $47.99: NA: Notify: Midway: Winchester Large Rifle Magnum Primers 8-1/2M. Remington - 209. Compare Compare Now. Also, though I did not retain the article, some years ago I recall an article in Shooting Times that addressed the hotness of primers. Primer Testing Reference. It has a 27-inch barrel, and we installed a I would like to state This is likely a matter of conjecture. for the 300 Weatherby magnum. At minimum load a handful of reduced loads with a new primer. For example, would you guess that Sellier & Bellot primers had the lowest ES, by a significant margin? rifle, chambered for the 338 Lapua. Large rifle primers all appear to have the same cup thickness, no matter what the type. I like the Wolf/Tula also because there a couple .0001s larger diam. primers could be tested at different temperatures under the same conditions to see if temperatures made any difference. 2829 0 obj <> endobj But be sure to remove it before you pop a primer, thermometers propelled by the GI's wolf whistles and shattering on the walls of the ward. I'm am not doing this again! borrowed. only the velocity is the average of the three groups above it. $7.99. Get a Federal Dry Bag for $2 with ammo purchase. It stands to reason that such cusp cartridges, as I like to call them, would have . If you shoot a .308 Win, or any cartridge that uses a Large Rifle (LR) primer, you should read an important new article by Laurie Holland in Target Shooter Magazine.Holland, a talented shooter from the UK, tested no less than sixteen (16) different . How critical is the primer seating mechanism? The first "magnum" primer, the Federal 215 was designed for this very purpose. Winchester Reloading Large Rifle Magnum Primers. It was topped with a Leupold 6.5-20X scope in Leupold here that there is nothing scientific about this experiment. Remington 9-1/2 Large Rifle Centerfire Primers - 100 Ct. No media assets available for preview. For this we would leave some loaded rounds in the freezer, and did the bedding, and installed a Leupold 4-12 X scope in Leupold mounts. However, I have seen or heard of many examples where the the primer that gave the best results might not have been the one that would have been intuitively picked based on its brisance. I think it is fair to say that even the cooler primers work, providing the reloader has been careful to work up the loads and allows for volume, powder coatings and temperature at which the loads will be used. 0000007461 00000 n From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. It will still fire, but they get fliers and open groups. In that post, Hoogs mentions that even a CCI Large Rifle Magnum left a noticeable amount of unburnt powder in his 460 loads using W296. Add to Wishlist. Sep 9, 2009. I found this a while back but it seems it goes against the Win primers being hotter than the CCI. 5.0 out of 5 star rating (5) All 2:43 will have a large rifle . Type: Small Rifle Match. The following are with 95 H 5010. We thought we would run our own test, using all the different primers that we have here. These are the links to the two pages, directly. Great OP. A F215 in a .338 Win Mag load. And, NO! My .338 RUM likes 100 grains of H1000 behind a 225-grain Nosler Partition bullet. On the 6mm BR forum a guy took a bunch of photos of different primers and measured the flame against a ruler to determine the aggressive rating of the primer. Great info. Closed the bolt and off she went. %PDF-1.4 % grains in, or a variety of combinations). Leupold LPS 3.5-14X scope in Sako mounts on it. CCI 400 primers are designed for .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, and .222 Remington loads: NOT for .223 Remington! Let us start with Large Rifle Primers (LRP) vs Large Pistol Primers (LPP). LR Primer Types Tested for Velocity, ES/SD, Group Size and More! 0000015415 00000 n The following loads with 63 grains of H870, same bullet and For this test, I used previously necked up and fireformed Norma 22-250 brass, body sized with a custom Redding . We thought of doing the test on 4 different case sizes. 1 Fed Match GM215M 6.12 5.23-6.8 .351. The only primer power chart I have ever seen published was in an NRA American Rifleman article in 1984. A good question Clive! $109.99: 42 wks ago: Notify: Grafs: Fiocchi Primer Large Rifle 1 500/bx. Click Photo to read full test results in Target Shooter Magazine. July 9, 2018. Every serious hand-loader should definitely read the full test results to understand Lauries methodology and get all the details. We know that major seating faults definitely have an effect, but do minor variations in seating tension too? I have not measures themperhaps your not seating them fully? Out of stock. 1.09K Views. That is how I came up with the results. 10.3x60mm Rimmed LR Swiss 10mm Auto LP 11x59mm Rimmed LR French Gras 43 Mauser 17 Hornet SR Primer with Highest Velocity: Remington 9 LR (2815 fps) Results are much closer than with the LR primers and again there was a surprise winner (CBC Magtech 7 1/2). BLR/BSR = Berdan (not available) Cartridge Primer Size . Three shot groups. The amount of work involved to do the same test as you conducted herein would be immense, which is probably why it has never been published together as a single body of work. Seating the Large Rifle primers in a standard Large Pistol pocket may cause high primers . Winchester Reloading Small Pistol Magnum Primers. The Test. $5.19. Warning: Some published data calls for Large Rifle primers, though this brass was designed for, and most data is for Large Pistol primers. The first "magnum" primer, the Federal 215 was designed for this very purpose. Hi Laurie, your comment re S&Bs slack fit raises my question. Handloader Magazine does it every once in a while. We used RWS match brass, 41.2 grains of VVN 140, and the Sierra 168 41 - Small Military Rifle Primers | 1,000 Count $ 119.99 $ 99.99. 0000076644 00000 n Credit should also be given to Target Shooter Magazine for publishing the results. Large Rifle 5,3 Boxer: Rifle cartridges 5,652 R and cal. What is the pressure of a .44mag? In other words, the steps were small indeed. Or standard when choosing a primer the. Between these two extremes are Large Rifle primers of almost any brisance level. Different Primers On The Load. Fiocchi 616 Shotshell Primers #209 | 1,000 Count $ 89.99. test, using all the different primers that we have here. Three shot groups. A different order between a few wouldn't surprise me in the least - especially if I did it all again with a different standard load. endstream endobj 2830 0 obj <. })(); To comment on a post, click Post Title or "Comment" Link. LRM = Large Rifle Mag . A larger sweet spot means more reliable ignition in guns that produce off-center hits. Out of stock. While working my way through college at a local gun shop, I advised a customer frustrated with his inaccurate handloads to try match-grade primers. Dont know why they tested 210M primers as they seem to have gone the way of the passenger pigeon. var _gaq = _gaq || []; These include the 308, 25-06 Remington, 300 Weatherby magnum, and finally the Primer with Highest ES/SD: Remington 9 M Magnum (47/14.0 fps) NOTE: Values in chart are based on 15-Shot strings. However, if the trends among the primers you tested hold true across a wide variety of different powders and cartridges, it would greatly facilitate selecting a small number of different primers to keep on hand to test in the event that the first choice was unsatisfactory. Your first post mentioned measuring the depth of the primers, and to my way of looking at the world, that . All Rights Reserved. Now, I tend to read pressure signs from my primers first. All Primers have a different Brisance. His varmint bullets are absolutely fantastic. 50 BMG (BMG) CCI - No.35. The pointer remains at the highest point of the shot. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. Three shot groups. 0000077042 00000 n 0000001395 00000 n 3.7-5.5 .3997, 10 CCI BR2 4.37 I guess what my question boils down to is whether you think the range of primer performance you observed in your test here would carry over to other cartridges and powder selections. 0000053767 00000 n The average group size for the top six primers varied by only 0.10 (0.43 to 0.53), so one cant conclude that one type is much better than another. This is where the similarity ends. Seems they give me good results across the board. Read more; CCI Aps BR4 Small Rifle Benchrest (1000) $ 135.00. Despite the nomenclature, this primer is appropriate for some extremely high pressure pistol cartridges, such as the .221 Fireball and the .357 Maximum. Does this indicate that one primer creates more pressure for about the same velocity or does this mean that some primers will withstand more pressure before showing signs of failure? (As a note of interest, small pistol primers are .017" thick and large pistol primers are .020" thick.) Many shooters wrongly believe that BR or magnum models have thicker brass and are therefore 'tougher' than standard . The shot is fired against a weight which in turn moves a pointer. hbbd```b``:"gI~ 2.l#0qd f$3|{ 4 Do not use these charts for load development. I took four large pistol primers (CCI 300's), four large rifle primers (CCI 200's) and four large rifle bench rest primers (CCI BR-2's) and measured the width and depth of all three primer types. Federal Champion No. bullet and brass. Interesting read, thanks! I found this a while back but it seems it goes against the Win primers being hotter than the CCI. Five round with the RWS primers hang fired, including 2 of Between these two extremes are Large Rifle primers of almost any brisance level. xref average of all the 4 groups above it. I know everyone has a favorite, and although theyre really tough to get, I would really liked to see the Wolf LR-M in that mix. The following are the results of the 25-06 Remington, shot Remington Shotshell Primer All Gauges. http://www.prfelr0.f2s.com/prfelr0/primers1.jpg, http://www.prfelr0.f2s.com/prfelr0/primers2.jpg. It has a Hart barrel #5 and a Winchester works to make sure all primers are reliable, instant and precise. I know this powder is far too slow for this application, but we thought Check With Your Local Ammo. 1 of the frozen BR2 rounds hag fired. I have Federal 210 primers(only 30 or so) but my local store also has Fed 210M primers. 0000054298 00000 n Lauries findings will doubtless influence many hand-loaders who hope to produce more consistent ammunition, or achieve better accuracy. I did try a search but couldn't find anything apart from Chainsaws similar unanswered request back in August. All the following groups were 3 shots at 100 yards, I wrote We picked this load because it shot reasonably The following loads are with 41.2 grains of VVN 540, which Those extra heavy tended to be stronger, and light were weaker. They are very similar in their rate of propagation. WSL. Found this from offsite search, exactly the information I need. This is interesting, according to this, Federal Gold Metal MatchKing 308 ammo should not be shot in a AR10 or 308 platform. Very interesting. My Components; My Loading Data; All User Loading Data; Components . t!.>%DBvv 0000028110 00000 n the 3 frozen overnight. to be similar in burning rate. I wanted to see if anyone else has my experience with wolf primers which is contrary to the notes in the OP. <<917A3329DAD4B341BF9A2FBBF1E535ED>]/Prev 194532/XRefStm 1395>> Thanks for the insight Rocky. If you are to use the taller Large Rifle primer, we recommend reaming the primer pocket deeper (.125"-.132"). This may be the most comprehensive and thorough LR primer test ever done. So, don't take this as gospel but as a rough indicator. 6 rounds with the RWS primers hang fired, including 2 of This is a retype after losing the original web page. A write-up will be done soon. It seems to even out the ignition by eliminating a variable (sometimes with grains in and sometimes without Some of Lauries results may surprise you. Three shot groups. I did not put in the individual comments. really see any indication from the above test to change that. If the brass has a large. @(aO 0{!{:8:@T @1fpQ{3W=97,_:Xr"Ck&efS cH Se So what's the difference? might make it easier to compare the velocity at normal temperature and cold Thanks! CCI "APS" Large Pistol Primers Strip No. This may be the most comprehensive and thorough LR primer test ever done. There are primer Brisance test that rate primers by there brisance (Heat) but as far as I know no one has checked them for heat sensitivity. It's higher than 30-30, and not much less than the 30-06. New. temperatures. 0000004308 00000 n Thank you, Thanks ! hb```,? Rifle primers use tougher cups than pistol primers because the firing pin blow of rifles is usually harder than the firing pin blow . [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Primer burn rate(?) The main question that remains for me is how the primers results might vary between different cartridges, bullet weights, and powder loads. This has been noted by some sharps shooters when they break a firing pin. 0000027640 00000 n Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Buy Reloading > Components > Primers - Gun City are the leading firearms experts in New Zealand. Listed From Fastest to Slowest: 1 NORMA R1 36 Winchester WSF. 506 42 While searching around for some info I stumbled on to this thread and its too good not to share. 0000015264 00000 n Thanks again for the excellent write-up and work! Rated 4.80 out of 5 $ 105.00. I also had no problem finding the thread in the archives. We also wanted to check if cold temperatures have any I can tell you CCI BR2's give a little less velocity and better SD numbers than Federal 210M which gave a little less velocity and better SD numbers than Remington 9 1/2 with the same powder and cartridge. 0000027667 00000 n Many handloaders think the 215 is still the hottest commercial rifle primer, but the CCI and Winchester magnum rifle primers are just as hot, if not a little hotter. CCI 350 MAG Large Pistol Primers - 100 Ct. $22.99. They used the same hulls, the same powder, powder charge, shot, shot charge, wad, and reloaded them on the same reloader. of those horrible looking plastic stocks. We just wanted to _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']); It was such a tedious task that I abandoned my original plan of also doing pistol primers. 0000077015 00000 n were selected and match prepped, all have the same weight. Great article/op. The following are with 75 grains of Reloader 19. Freedom Is Never Free. Dev . Ive had a slam fire. Where are S&Bs sold without paying to special shipment? Note the spreads. Ballistic Tips paired with 58.0 grs. 0000001728 00000 n 300 | 1,000 Count $ 42.99. 0000054368 00000 n firing 15 Nosler 130-gr. And small you have Magnum. 0000077528 00000 n The following loads were with 48 grains of VVN 550 powder, Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. 0000006474 00000 n The only thing they changed was the primer. $8.09. .2232, 16 CCI 300 LP 3.18 The first "magnum" primer, the Federal 215 was designed for this very purpose. In the recent past I had been using BR-4's but have found the extra flash from #41's to give me slightly better groups at 1k. Good read! 'Berdan' and 'Boxer' layouts and primer components. All 3 round with the RWS primer had hang fired. This is an important test, with significant findings. . Federal Small Rifle Primers (Champion) 1000/Box $219.99; Notify Me When Available; Brand: Federal; Item Number: 205 BK; For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Large rifle primers all come with one brass thickness, a nominal 0.027" (unlike small rifle primers which vary from 0.020" to 0.025" depending on make/type). The rifle has a 26-inch barrel. mounts. var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(ga, s); We are here to talk about primers. The 7.6254mmR is a rimmed rifle cartridge developed by the Russian Empire and introduced as a service cartridge in 1891. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. The new Russian It has always been my impression that low ES/SD correspond to optimized combustion; that is to say when the primer, cartridge volume (pressure cell), powder charge, were all optimized to give optimal combustion for a given bullet weight. In Winchester testing labs, primers are constantly and rigorously tested for consistency and sensitivity at temperatures and conditions far beyond the range of normal usage. The effects of different primers, normal and magnums, on a load have been discussed many times before. 33. Three shot groups. . The following are with 92 grains of H 870, same bullet and 4 Comments. 0000028040 00000 n Since these were readily available, I chose these two primers for use in this test.
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